Curse

Lishy · Dec 07, 2008, 06:05 AM // 06:05

I'll just cut the crap and get straight to the point:
All paragons these days in PvE run are Save Yourselves, and The Power is Yours! (In which, BIP is superior)
I think Paragon should be tweaked to fulfill more roles effectively. Because we all know one day SY will be nerfed, and TPIY is only sub-par.

Sure, you have a ranged weapon with sword DPS. Sure, your other shouts are unstoppable. Sure, you have high armor.
But what good does that do if most of your skills are crap? Because stunning strike is NOT worth the trouble in PvE. And Motigons have been nerfed to hell. Paragons simply need more effective builds. Skills like "Help me!",Mighty throw, Anthem of Guidance, and many others should be changed.
Personally, I'd like to see Paragons able to do more DPS buffs and Batterying. Perhaps things like
"Shout. All party members under the effects of a shout's casting time is reduced by 25%" can help, though just an example.

Lyynyyrd · Dec 07, 2008, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

"Shout. All party members under the effects of a shout's casting time is reduced by 25%" can help.

So you want to help a poorly implemented extra profession by allowing it to fulfill the role of primary attribute of a core (real) profession?

Signed for allowing Paragons to do something other than SY!, not signed on the really bad suggestion.

**Marty Silverblade** · Dec 07, 2008, 06:52 AM // 06:52

I like variety, so /signed.

Lishy · Dec 07, 2008, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyynyyrd

So you want to help a poorly implemented extra profession by allowing it to fulfill the role of primary attribute of a core (real) profession?

Signed for allowing Paragons to do something other than SY!, not signed on the really bad suggestion.

That was merely an example.
Though the overall point of it was to show that we needed skills to better synergize with the team and do better support in general. While on the topic, Awe should be a +dps shout for your team IMO, rather than a short range daze for KD'd people.

As for the skills themselves, I noticed a large array of Paragon skills need a burn on your enemies. Perhaps making better use of the burn condition on enemies could be great. Would be nice if Holy Spear didn't need to hit a summoned creature, but that would make it a tad bit overpowered... Or would it?

Seraphim Angel · Dec 07, 2008, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Paragons have needed a variety for a LONG time, but when it comes down to it Imbagon is the way to go. If you play a paragon try and get together and play with other paragons and mix it up. 6+ paragons is really fun to play.

Here is a previous post from someone who posted some interesting concepts for a all paragon team.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...09#post4362109

PvE is pretty much easy now a days for any profession so play around with different builds. There are tons of them you can make with a paragon that can be effective.

upier · Dec 07, 2008, 07:49 AM // 07:49

The problem is that you are defining variety as having additional options that would be as obscenely overpowered as SY/TNTF.
So ... that would be a /notsigned.

Konig Des Todes · Dec 07, 2008, 08:15 AM // 08:15

As I did not see that the other thread was a clone thread, copy pasting what I said over there...

You missed "There's Nothing To Fear!"

And "They're On Fire" (with Flame Anthem, Flaming Finale, and a SF Ele).

IMO, unless you want strength skills, Paragons can easily be used to replace warriors (and they look rather cool with swords), so they do have versatility, people just don't bother using that versatility.

Gimmick builds ftl

What I see in the near future:

1) Nerf to Save Yoruselves!, There's Nothing to Fear!, and The Power is Yours!
2) QQ threads up the wazoo
3) Random player comes and say "hey guys, I found this really good Paragon build! ________"
4) New build becomes new gimmick for paragons, random person gets his own build name like sab and rac
5) new build gets nerfed
6) start from 2

kostolomac · Dec 07, 2008, 09:28 AM // 09:28

There are more builds , but these builds are not as good as the imbagon. You don't need SY! for regular pve , TNtF! is more than enough.
I agree with upier so /notsigned

Rak Orgon of Beowulf · Dec 07, 2008, 09:53 AM // 09:53

/signed

12 chars

My para just sits in her slot most of the time, she got bored with SY spamming

PvE is easy though....
/agree that playing 6+ paras is fun same with 6+ rits

Zidane Ortef · Dec 07, 2008, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Paragons have alot of variety its just the fact that people dont want to play other builds they are stuck on the effectiveness of Imbagon, and are closed minded on other build take a lot at the 8 man paragon team for FoW if that's not variety then idk what is.

Use your mind use different elite skills.

[Cruel Spear][Song of Restoration][Stunning Strike][Song of Purification] These are all useful paragon elites.

The problem isn't in the build variety but in the variety of the human controlling the paragon.

/not signed because the answer is simple if your tired of Imbagon use another build.

ZenRgy · Dec 07, 2008, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Give paragons their own barrage and for each enemy hit you gain +5% critical chance and -5% damage taken.

I promise it won't be broken.

MithranArkanere · Dec 07, 2008, 01:14 PM // 13:14

I agree with more variety. Paragon skills are way too conditional. Some more skills with less 'Ifs' would be welcomed.

But only if new skills are added to Factions and Prophecies, instead of altering the existing ones to the extent of being completely different ones.

I hate when campaigns don't get the same or similar numbers of stuff.

Tyla · Dec 07, 2008, 02:29 PM // 14:29

If you strive for more variety the key point is nerfing "Save Yourselves!". There really are no other builds in the game as powerful in defensive capability as the Imbagon. And with the superiority of it? Who wouldn't play an Imbagon? Someone who doesn't want to play it and wants to play a less efficient bar will, but as long as it's superior people who want to win won't stray that path.

Div · Dec 07, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

If you strive for more variety the key point is nerfing "Save Yourselves!". There really are no other builds in the game as powerful in defensive capability as the Imbagon. And with the superiority of it? Who wouldn't play an Imbagon? Someone who doesn't want to play it and wants to play a less efficient bar will, but as long as it's superior people who want to win won't stray that path.

Pretty much that.

The reason why you see so much "variety" in other builds because there is not a clear, defined, overpowered build as in the paragon with the imbagon build. If the imbagon never existed, you'd see different paragons running different builds that are all similar in power.

The problem with nerfing it today is that, well, "casual" (read: bad) players can't stand nerfs. They don't like changes, and can't stand having to come up with a new build because of nerfs. Game balancers know that, and also know that those bad players make up the majority of the community, so the end result is that the imbagon isn't going to be touched, and it'll remain the only option for paragons if you want to maximize your effectiveness.